November 16, 2009
State of the Union
Mayor Rudy Guiliani speaks with John King about 9-11 murderers being tried in NYC. He thinks they should be tried in a military tribunal, that it’s an unnecessary risk and financial burden to NYC and an advantage to terrorists.
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KING: The administration’s decision about how to bring alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and four other alleged conspirators to justice is the subject of fierce legal and political debate. Some see the decision for trials in federal court as the right call, a transparent process, not far from where the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center once stood. Others, though, are outraged, among them, the man who led New York City that fateful morning, Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
Mr. Mayor, thank you for joining us.
GIULIANI: Thank you very much, John.
KING: You say this is the wrong call. The White House has gone back and said, wait a minute, he testified at the Moussaoui trial, and he said, among other things, quote, “I was in awe of our system. It does demonstrate that we can give people a fair trial, that we are exactly as we say we are. We are a nation of law. I think he’s going to be a symbol of American justice. If it was right for Mr. Moussaoui, why it is wrong now?
GIULIANI: Well, the reality is, we can be an example to everyone. And a military tribunal is certainly fair. It’s a great example to the rest of the world. The tradition for over 150 years has been to use those military tribunals. They were good enough for Abraham Lincoln, Franklin Roosevelt in many, many cases. And in fact, the really strange thing about this decision is five of these terrorists are going to be tried in military tribunals anyway. So the reality is, this is an unnecessary — first of all, it’s an unnecessary advantage to give to the terrorists. I don’t know why you want to give terrorists advantages.
And secondly, it’s an unnecessary risk to the city of New York, which already has any number of risks. If it was necessary; if this were the only option, well, of course I’d be in favor of it, and of course the city would do everything it could, as it will, to try and make it safe.
KING: Well, the administration says those five going to military tribunals committed acts overseas against U.S. interests, and these that are going to go to trial in New York committed — planned an attack, of course, here in the United States. I want to go back to something else you said. Because I’m trying to make the distinction of things you’ve said in the past to where we are now. In 1993, you said at the World Trade Center trials in New York, “It should show that our legal system is the most mature legal system in the history of the world, that it works well, that it is the place to seek vindication if you feel your rights have been violated.”
The political question is, you know, what the White House is saying, well, Rudy Giuliani said, when Bill Clinton was president, a trial was OK. When George W. Bush was president, a trial was OK. But now that Barack Obama is president, it’s not.
GIULIANI: Well, that’s a — that’s an absolutely silly distinction that they’re making. A trial is OK. A military trial is OK. In the case of the World Trade Center under Bill Clinton, I’ve already said, in retrospect, as many have, that that was a mistake. To treat the 1993 bombing as if it were just a criminal act, just one of the 1,973 murders in the city of New York that year, was a big mistake.
So what — basically, the Obama administration is repeating the mistake of history. Many, many people have regarding that as a mistake, that it was treated just as a civilian act. It should have been treated as an act of war.
And it’s part of a bigger picture here, John. It’s part of — it’s part of Barack Obama deciding that we’re not at war with terrorism any longer.
So this is now treated as if it was an act of war, which it should be treated like.
Remember, he’s told us we can’t use the term “war on terror.” The only problem with that, John, is the terrorists haven’t stopped going to war with us. Maybe the Obama administration doesn’t think we’re at war with them, but they are very clear on the fact that they are at war with us.
So for many, many reasons, including the symbolic reasons, this should be tried in a military court, as an indication that we have learned, since 1993, after the attack on the World Trade Center, after the attacks in Africa, after the attack on the USS Cole after the attack on the World Trade Center, gosh, you’d think we’d learn that we’re at war.
KING: I want to show you the front page, here — I’m showing the New York Post today, the Sunday Post. “Under Siege” is one of the headlines, “Massive New York City Lockdown for 9/11 Trial.” You were the mayor of the city on that fateful day. Your voice was one of comfort to the people of New York City in the days and weeks after the attack. Do you think holding this trial there puts the people of New York City at risk?
GIULIANI: Well, I think…yes, of course it does. I remember when the African bombers were brought to New York when I was mayor of New York City. I was briefed on all of the additional risk that that would create for New York City.
That’s when I had to close areas around the federal courthouse and I had to close areas around city hall, for which I was severely criticized by the New York Times for making those closures, as if I wanted to keep people out of city hall. I did it on the advice of the FBI and the New York City Police Department because of the additional risk to city hall that was going to be created by the — by the terrorists that were going to be tried in New York City. This would be in the late 1990s, preceding September 11.
So anyone that tells you that this doesn’t create additional security problems, of course, isn’t telling you the truth. And the best indication of it is, just look at the additional security that’s going to be employed when this happens. That also happens to cost millions and millions and millions of dollars, all of which would be worth it if there was no other choice.
There is another choice. The choice is going to be utilized with regard to other terrorists, meaning military tribunals. It’s the more appropriate choice with regard to a recognition that we are at war with Islamic terrorists, something the Obama administration refuses to say.
KING: Let me ask you, then, why do you think your successor and your friend, Mike Bloomberg, has a somewhat different view? He said this, “It is fitting that 9/11 suspects face justice near the World Trade Center site where so many New Yorkers were murdered. The NYPD is the best police department in the world and it has experience dealing with high-profile terrorism suspects and any logistical issues that may come up degree the trials.”
Mike Bloomberg seems to think this is a good thing, that it’s fitting.
GIULIANI: Well, we have a difference of opinion on this. I — I agree completely with Mayor Bloomberg that this is the greatest police department in the world. And as I said, if it has to be tested, let’s test it. But let’s not add additional burdens to this.
And, of course, you can’t deny it’s going to create additional burdens. Because, as soon as we see these people deployed, we’re going to see additional security. And it’s going to cost millions and millions of dollars.
But beyond the risk to New York, I’m concerned about this fact that we no longer believe that we’re at war with Islamic terrorists when they’re at war with us. I see this whole decision-making as part of a piece with the failure to recognize the acts of Major Hasan as acts of Islamic terrorism, the failure to — to really make a decision quickly on Afghanistan.
My gosh, we’ve been waiting 2 1/2 months to make a military decision that you would think President Obama would be ready to make. I mean, after all, he criticized President Bush for not paying enough attention to Afghanistan. If it’s taking him 2 1/2 months to develop a military strategy for a war that’s been doing on for eight years, he can’t be paying too much attention to Afghanistan, either.
Tags: citizens against proobama media bias, proobamedia, terrorism, national security, obamahoax, eric holder, president obama, barry soetoro, al qaeda, john king, september 11 attacks, RUDY GUILIANI, state of the union, 9-11 terror attacks, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, 9-11 murderers
