August 24, 2009
This is a response to a commenter.
Hawaii vouches for births with a “certificate of live birth.” When delivered officially, it comes with the Seal of the Great State of Hawaii, verifying the accuracy of the document.
Certificate of live birth = BIRTH CERTIFICATE not CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH, which is what that image is supposed to represent.
Under law — let me repeat, since you wish to ignore — under law, that document must be accepted as proof of what it alleges. Hawaii stands behind it. The Constitution requires all other states to give that document full faith and credit.
I totally agree with the law – have always agreed with the law – but the requirements for that law – your second sentence – have not been met.
If that COLB was certified there would be no problem.
The problem is that COLB has not been proven to be certified.
And Hawaii has never vouched for that COLB.
To prove that it was a “certified” copy – the whole back page of the document needs to be visible with an uninterrupted view of the full seal, date and signature.
There is no photo posted of the entire back side of any of the versions of it.
And there is no way around proof of certification unless they post a full page with the seal and signature in situ.
Close ups of the seal (wasn’t complete) and the signature mean absolutely nothing if they are not seen uninterrupted on the full backside of the document.
I am not making it up to suit my purposes – it’s the law – as you quoted.
So because it was not complete – it rules out the claim that it was certified.
It may very well have been, but what they provided is not enough evidence to prove it.
A possible way around it is if Hawaii states they sent that exact document on the date he said he got it and that looking at it they can say it was the exact one they sent and that the information was derived exactly from the original.
1-Hawaii has never said they sent barry a COLB.
2- Dr Alvin Onaka, the registrar who saw what Dr Fukino saw, said that that COLB was not sent from their office.
As far as I know – since the phone conversation was not recorded – it’s hearsay.
3-When sent a copy of the COLB by Politifact – Janice Okubo (Dr Fukino’s spokesman) and Dr Onaka looked at it and said (direct quote from Politifact):
POLITIFACT: And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification?
“When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it.”
Still, she acknowledges: “I don’t know that it’s possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents.”
Stating without equivocation that there is absolutely no connection from what Dr Fukino saw and that COLB. The man responsible for “certifying” Hawaii COLBs could not say that barry’s COLB was certified. It doesn’t get any clearer than that.
And that’s why Politifact’s next statement was:
And there’s the rub.
And that’s where a reputable, scientifically-based (first requirement) “factchecker” should have stopped.
Worse, they went on with a negative conclusion when they are to prove that it is authentic – not disprove their assertion that it is:
There is not one shred of evidence to disprove PolitiFact’s conclusion that the candidate’s name is Barack Hussein Obama, or to support allegations that the birth certificate he released isn’t authentic.
No proof it isn’t authentic when as factcheckers their job is to provide evidence that it is authentic.
The shred of evidence is the long form birth certificate which barry refuses to provide. For their “factcheck” to be the least bit reliable – they would have had to say: There is not one shred OF AVAILABLE EVIDENCE. And then they should have admitted that there is more than a shred of evidence that could decide the matter once and for all but barry refuses to provide it.
And with the registrar’s comments they have basically lied.
His joint statement is as large shred of evidence that exists outside seeing the vault copy.
I don’t know that it’s possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents.
And what totally made their “factcheck” 100% worthless?
In their conclusion – they call it a “BIRTH CERTIFICATE” when right on the top of the image it reads “CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH”.
Now, you can overcome the presumption of those documents if you present, in court, other evidence to suggest that there is error in any of those documents. You have no such evidence. None
1-The “factcheck” could never be entered as evidence (even though barry’s paid lawyers used it as a footnote on their SCOTUS filings) because they couldn’t properly name the document.
2-You have no evidence that that COLB came from Hawaii or that the information on the COLB was derived from what Dr Fukino saw.
That’s a fact. Not something I want to believe.
I won’t go into the fact that he interviewed – campaigned – for a job and still has never supplied any definitive proof that he is eligible to hold that job. It’s not up to employers to prove he is ineligible – it is up to the applicant that he prove he is eligible. Especially a man who claims transparency.
Nor will I go into why the notices mean nothing for the same reasons I said before. We can agree to disagree on that. No court would settle for 48 y/o notices when they could get the gold standard – the original birth certificate.
Dr. Fukino’s latest statement says the information on the document is accurate. The State says it is, under seal. Therefore, it is.
I agree. I have always agreed – though she cannot declare him to be a “natural born citizen”. The Supreme Court hasn’t even defined that. She can state only that the papers say he was born in Hawaii and the papers are filed according to the law.
Nor will I go into what it means that she changed the terminology from “original birth certificate” to “original vital records”.
All that matters is she has said absolutely nothing about that COLB.
No matter what you say – they remain two separate unconnected documents.
And you can quote laws and whatever else but it’s not going to connect the two or prove that COLB is certified.
Reporters I trust analyzed the document, and said it was genuine.
Sorry, but that means nothing. Besides not being document examiners and loyal to barry’s cause – The American People – even barryfans – agree. They were polled and believe that barry got more coverage, that the media coverage affected the election and that they believed reporters would hide things that would hurt their candidate.
Nov 5-6, 2008
- 93.1% barry received more coverage
- 74.7% thought media coverage of the presidential election influenced the outcome
- 72.6% believe the news they read/see is biased.
Sept 8, 2008
- 69% voters overall believe reporters are trying to help their candidate get elected
- 59% voters think the reporters are trying to help Obama get elected
- 42% believe reporters would try to hide info that hurts their candidate
- 48% of Democrats believe reporters would try to hide info that hurts their candidate
93% thought barry got more coverage, 75% thought media coverage influenced the election, 42% think reporters would hide info that hurt barry and 59% believe reporters are trying to help barry get elected – including almost half (48%) of Democrats.
Doesn’t get clearer than that how skewed “reporters” are to barry. Don’t even need numbers. The NY Times has already admitted they killed a story on ACORN just prior to the election because it could have potentially damaged barry.
And whoever you trust – they are not document examiners or Hawaii Registrars.
Whoever they are – they have not allowed a disinterested third party to view the document.
A factchecker should do a complete factcheck, which at the very minimum contains uninterrupted photographs of both sides.
They should also call the document by its actual name.
And they should be confident enough to allow anyone to see their evidence.
Now this is an insult to your intelligence:
No other president has released as much information as Obama. Most couldn’t release as much.
I won’t bother to mention the entire list. Here’s the link which you probably won’t follow but I’ll put it here for whoever wants to see it.
For starters: Bush’s school records are known, his medical records are known, his actual physical birthplace is known.
There are three.
Add years of paperwork – all public record – as governor.
Add that his history is not self-supplied. He comes from a well-known political family, (and without a doubt resembles) each member’s history well-known and a matter of public record with an extensive paper trail from birth to president.
Add that he did not sequester from the media the only family member who could corroborate his entire life story.
Add that he did not spend over a year and considerable funds to prevent information from being released 8 months into his presidency with no end in sight.
Your statement is blatantly false.
Your bringing up Bush is evidence that you don’t even know what this site is about. You automatically assumed we’re some right-wing nutjob birthers.
If you had actually read the top of the blog you would see that we are not associated with any candidate, political party, organization, movement or group.
If you had read my disclaimer, you would know that I have never voted or been involved in politics until January 2008 and only then because of the media bias.
And this is such a tired old comment that barryfans always have to resort to when faced with a logical argument and it always precedes the personal viciousness. It’s predictably sad and not worthy of a response.
What form is your bigotry that you wish Obama to jump through hoops George W. Bush did not?
Now this makes absolutely no sense.
You’re acting foolishly, defying US.law and the Constitution, and common law.
And here comes the predictable personal attack.
It does not get more clear than that, nor more sordid. What evil purpose causes you to continue this ignoble harassment?
If you knew what this blog was about– or simply read the title – you would know our primary focus is the nonvetting of barry by the media.
If you were familiar with previous posts on Rod Blagojevich, Roland Burris, Tony Rezko or barry himself – you would know that I grew up and still live in Chicago and know exactly how Chicago politics work. You would know that barry could not get where he is without getting his hands dirty. You would know that Valerie Jarrett and Michelle Obama know more about Chicago politics and the Daley Machine than barry will ever grasp, which is why he brought his protectors with him: Emanuel and Axelrod. And you would know that Michelle’s father had a city job and was a precinct captain and that the only way he got it and kept it was through tit for tat.
And if you were familiar with my actual view on the birth certificate issue – you would know that I don’t care one whit what is on that piece of paper or where he was born or who is father really is or what religion he is or what his sexual orientation is or anything else you want to bring up.
I care about one thing: the absolute media corruption in regards to barry.
And the most glaring evidence is that he is POTUS and not a single person – outside whomever barry has told and Dr Fukino and the registrar – knows his actual physical birthplace.
And no law, insults, or anything else is going to change that fact.
Nor is anything going to change the fact that barry started this by voluntarily placing that COLB online, that he voluntarily allowed it to remain an issue and that he voluntarily can stop it at any time.
The stone cold truth: barry is 100% responsible for the birthers’ existence.
The birther movement would not even have been born had barry placed on line an actual certified copy of his actual BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
barry is 100% responsible for their anger because he, his bots, his campaign, his spokesman, his online minions, his partisan factcheckers and his barrymedia have intentionally and mistakenly lied that what he released was his actual BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
barry is 100% responsible for their increasing agitation because he refuses to release a certified copy of his original BIRTH CERTIFICATE and is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting to make sure it never gets released.
And until his actual physical birthplace is known with 100% certainty – the birthers have a legitimate beef – however bizarre their theories or questionable their motivation.
The inescapable truth: barry will be 100% responsible for any violence that erupts when whatever he is hiding is made known.
And with 100% certainty, it will be made known.